Republican Presidential Debate, Monday June 13 8PM ET

[JohnBrowdie]

looking forward to seeing bachmann in action.  we will probably make this a live thread later . . .

Republicans to debate with Romney the frontrunner

(Reuters) - Seven Republican presidential contenders meet face-to-face in their first major debate on Monday as the fight for the party's 2012 nomination enters a new phase.

The nationally televised forum in New Hampshire will include most of the top-tier contenders in the Republican battle for the right to challenge President Barack Obama, including Mitt Romney and Michelle Bachmann.

Romney, Bachmann and Newt Gingrich skipped a lightly attended debate last month, but will appear on Monday with four contenders who participated in the first one -- former Senator Rick Santorum, former Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty, former pizza executive Herman Cain and U.S. Representative Ron Paul.

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[JohnBrowdie]

pawlenty has begun calling obamacare "obamneycare".  freaking ouch.  that's probably enough to derail the romney train all by itself, although I'm not sure it will help pawlenty very much.

[jafo2010]

Exactly who is being surveyed to have Romney ar 40%+.....his extended family members?

And in regard to Backmann, she should temper her pronouncements of who she holds in high regard, i.e. von Mises.  As it turns out, von Mises thought favorably of FASCISM, claiming it was the bulwark that saved Europe from Communism.    What saved Europe from communism was the USA,  that's right, the USA.

As a matter of fact, since the primary voters are those over age 45, with many of them much older yet, I would suggest she get smart and table any mention of von Mises, for there are plenty that would take exception to her love  of a guy who found ANY favor with fascism.  Granted, Adolf Hitler was Life Magazine's (?) Man of the Year in 1936 (?) and so his fascism certainly garnered recognition at the time, however, because Hitler represents everything that is dastardly, so too does the mention of fascism.  

[JohnBrowdie]

bacmann did quite will.  gingrich did well.  herman cain, unfortunately, got handed a bit of a hand grenade about muslims in his hypothetical administration that the bastard moderator instantly twisted into a "purity test".  gingrich came to his assistance immediately afterward, and hammered an answer home, but cain has to learn that the MSM is there to blow him up.  that's what they do do republican candidates.

pawlenty was, once again, eminently forgettable.  poor guy.  he couldn't get nominated in a one person primary.  romney . . . well, his hair looked nice.  dr. nutz sounded semi lucid.

[JohnBrowdie]

the fascist accusation as it pertains to von mises has been debunked a thousand times.  people that are more familiar with his body of work simply roll their eyes when a few little quotes are ripped completely out of context, and an attempt made to build an entire argument around them.

whenever the subject of von mises comes up, there is always at least person in the crowd that wants to grind the fascist axe.  it never fails.

Exactly who is being surveyed to have Romney ar 40%+.....his extended family members?

And in regard to Backmann, she should temper her pronouncements of who she holds in high regard, i.e. von Mises.  As it turns out, von Mises thought favorably of FASCISM, claiming it was the bulwark that saved Europe from Communism.    What saved Europe from communism was the USA,  that's right, the USA.

As a matter of fact, since the primary voters are those over age 45, with many of them much older yet, I would suggest she get smart and table any mention of von Mises, for there are plenty that would take exception to her love  of a guy who found ANY favor with fascism.  Granted, Adolf Hitler was Life Magazine's (?) Man of the Year in 1936 (?) and so his fascism certainly garnered recognition at the time, however, because Hitler represents everything that is dastardly, so too does the mention of fascism.  

[JohnBrowdie]

pawlenty is getting raked over the coals pretty good this morning for not repeating his "obamneycare" attack during the debate, when he was face to face with romney.  the MSM is all but calling him a p*ssy.  he had better be careful, because this is exactly how you get smeared with a horrible and inaccurate media caricature --- it's happening to him right now.

I just think that the GOP candidates all saw a bigger enemy than each other last night;  the president.

[jafo2010]

Yes, the president is the one all of them hope to defeat one day, but they have to emerge from the field of Republican candidates to have that privilege.  And if you are not willing to take on Mitt Romney, face to face, cold hard and hit him with a full broadside, then you will not stand a chance against Obama in debates. 

Playing nice has to end for Mr. Pawlenty if he wants to stand out from the curtains or wallpaper.

I did not hear the debate, and would like to hear it.  Anyone know where I can go and hear it online uninterrupted?  I looked and did not find any links last night.

And in regard to Mises and his support for fascism....hey, I have not read his works, and only heard of him when Backmann indicated she goes to the beach and reads Mises.  So, in searching him online, I read direct quotes of him saying that fascism was the bulwark that saved Europe.  Since it was a quote directly out of one of his books...I will say...perhaps that does not represent the body of work for a lifetime from the man, but the mere fact he uttered these thoughts at a time when he was living with fascism, perhaps he was hoodwinked like those that selected Hitler as Man of the Year in Life Magazine.  However, HE DID SAY IT!  I doubt you will hear Roosevelt or Churchill praising fascism.

I can liken it to people today thinking that what Bush did was a good thing too.  Perhaps in 40 years, the majority of people will finally realize how much damage George Bush did to America.

[JohnBrowdie]

romney is not going to win the nomination.  it just isn't going to happen.  nominations are made, by and large, by the base.  and the base hates him.  the tea party hates him.  and there aren't enough moderate primary voters alive to get him to 1245

[jafo2010]

I never said he would win....but the polls do have him as the front runner, and I think that makes him fair game.

Perhaps this whole thing has been choreographed, and I just do not get it, but I would not have hesitated drawing the parallels between Romney and Obama, and I would not have been squeamish to answer the question about Obamneycare.

[JohnBrowdie]

I think that may have been the end of poor tom pawlenty*.  he was too unknown to endure that notorious "pussy" accusation.  now that is all part of the perceived wisdom about him.

*_{or is it tim?  I can't remember.  and that's the whole problem.}

I never said he would win....but the polls do have him as the front runner, and I think that makes him fair game.

Perhaps this whole thing has been choreographed, and I just do not get it, but I would not have hesitated drawing the parallels between Romney and Obama, and I would not have been squeamish to answer the question about Obamneycare.

[jafo2010]

Naw...far from it.  Heck, the game hasn't really started yet.  What is happening at present could be categorized as foreplay.

Cain and Gingrich of course may have both imploded and not last until Iowa and New Hampshire, but Pawlenty still has lots of time to get his game going.  I think the quality of advisors and the degree to which a candidate listens to voices other than their own BEFORE making critical decisions will impact the ultimate outcome.

Gingrich has proven incapable of listening to anyone, and apparently, Cain fits into that category too.  They are both history already, and the horses haven't even begun to head to the gate.

And it is TIM!  TIM PAWLENTY FOR PRESIDENT.

[JohnBrowdie]

stranger things have happened.  governors run well.  but if perry jumps in, pawlenty will just evaporate. 

but it would be a very strange thing indeed if pawlenty recovered and won any of the early primary states.

[jafo2010]

I think we will have at least one of the following jump in:  Perry or Christie, or Bush...any one of which will redefine the race over night.

Count on at least of these men jumping in.  Part of it all depends on the momentum Bachmann builds in the next 4-6 months.

[JohnBrowdie]

I believe christie when he says that he won't run.  if jeb runs at all, it will be in 2016.  perry will probably get in.

and his candidacy simply makes a romney nomination more likely.  and you already know what I think will come of that.

[jafo2010]

Romney is polished, even if what he says is drab and flip floppy.

Perry, while I know who he is, I have never heard him utter two words, so how good is he really?  I do not have a clue.

But to listen to Mia, he must leave something to be desired.  He is as much a non entity to me as the Rep from Michigan that just jumped in.  I know there are a number of people that just love Perry, but he is a mystery to me.  An unknown, which will not help him.