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Author Topic: Finland 'finds Patriot missiles' on China-bound ship  (Read 1607 times)
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Miss Mia
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« on: December 21, 2011, 09:00:45 pm »

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Finland 'finds Patriot missiles' on China-bound ship
The Finnish authorities have impounded an Isle of Man-flagged ship bound for China with undeclared missiles and explosives, officials say.

BBC

Police are questioning the crew of the MS Thor Liberty after what were described as 69 Patriot anti-missile missiles were found aboard.

Interior Minister Paivi Rasanen said the missiles were marked "fireworks".

The MS Thor Liberty had docked in the Finnish port of Kotka after leaving Germany last week.

Dock workers became suspicious after finding explosives poorly stored on open pallets, and the missiles were then found in containers marked "fireworks".

The managing director of the ship's owner, Thorco Shipping, expressed surprise. Thomas Mikkelsen told AFP news agency from Denmark that he was unaware of the matter.
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natstew
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« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2011, 08:59:21 am »

 National security is a joke in this Country.
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JohnBrowdie
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« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2011, 03:19:15 pm »

the germans ship american arms via commercial carrier?  holy crap.

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Germany: Patriot missiles impounded in Finland were legit shipment to South Korea

HELSINKI — A shipment of 69 surface-to-air missiles impounded by Finnish authorities was a legitimate delivery from Germany to South Korea, a German official said Thursday.

The announcement came after Finnish authorities seized the Patriot missiles and 160 tons of explosives on a British-registered cargo ship and detained two Ukrainian crew members on suspicion of violating weapons export laws.

Police said the missiles didn’t have the right transit documents and the explosive picric acid wasn’t properly stored on the M/S Thor Liberty, which docked in Kotka, southern Finland, on Dec. 15.

A spokesman for Germany’s Defense Ministry said the missiles were an official shipment that was fully declared and had all necessary clearings from German authorities.

“Those patriot guided missiles are from the Bundeswehr’s stocks and have been shipped to South Korea” according to an intergovernmental treaty, he said, declining to be named in line with government policy.

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GeronL
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« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2011, 03:25:33 pm »

so... why does the ship seem to have been heading towards Russia?
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natstew
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« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2011, 03:55:18 pm »

so... why does the ship seem to have been heading towards Russia?

Our Natinal Security is a joke!
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apples
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« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2011, 04:07:10 pm »

So now Patriot missiles from U.S.? FROM THIS ADMINISTRATION?  A whole new Fast and Furious? What am I missing?
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GeronL
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« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2011, 05:24:28 pm »

Looks to me like this ship, with a Ukrainian crew, was going to Russia. Who knows what was going to be taken off the ship there. Check this map.

http://www.jeffhead.com/images/germanshipstopped.jpg
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 05:27:02 pm by GeronL » Logged

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Miss Mia
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« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2011, 06:34:25 pm »

the germans ship american arms via commercial carrier?  holy crap.

You'd be surprised what's shipped on commercial ships.  BTW, I don't think these were bound for China or Russia.  1. Germany wouldn't sell them to them and they can't either.  From what I understand if a country that has Patriot missiles wanted to get rid of them they can't just sell them off, I'm pretty sure they have to return them to the US or get US approval to who they're sold to.  2. It makes a lot more sense that they were going to South Korea, since South Korea has a Patriot system.  I think the shipper ****ed up.  
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 06:37:03 pm by Miss Mia » Logged

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Miss Mia
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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2011, 06:41:09 pm »

So now Patriot missiles from U.S.? FROM THIS ADMINISTRATION?  A whole new Fast and Furious? What am I missing?

Patriot missiles are made in the US.  They're sold to many countries.  These were from Germany to South Korea.  This didn't originate in the US, so no it's not a "fast and furious" anything.  The shipper ****ed up with how they were packed and getting appropriate paperwork.  BTW, the Patriot missile isn't an explosive per se, it uses kinetic energy to destroy threats.
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Miss Mia
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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2011, 06:41:59 pm »

Our Natinal Security is a joke!

How exactly does the US national security come into play in a ship that departed from Germany?  Are US officials supposed to inspect all cargo ships in Germany?
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apples
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« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2011, 06:52:37 pm »

Patriot missiles are made in the US.  They're sold to many countries.  These were from Germany to South Korea.  This didn't originate in the US, so no it's not a "fast and furious" anything.  The shipper ****ed up with how they were packed and getting appropriate paperwork.  BTW, the Patriot missile isn't an explosive per se, it uses kinetic energy to destroy threats.
Thank you Miss Mia. That is why I asked. It sounded like they were from Germany from the article. Just wanted clarification.... Grin
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« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2011, 07:04:07 pm »

There was no open sea where it was headed, see the map, the only destination in that direction was St Peterburg Russia
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Miss Mia
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« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2011, 07:11:07 pm »

There was no open sea where it was headed, see the map, the only destination in that direction was St Peterburg Russia

It went that way to pick up a shipment of anchors.  All it had to do was go back through the Baltic to the North or Celtic Sea and it would have been back in the Atlantic Ocean.  Or go back out to the Norwegian Sea and around Russia to South Korea. 

Moving missiles from Germany to South Korea makes sense.  Germany selling missiles to Russia does not.
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« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2011, 09:40:06 am »

How exactly does the US national security come into play in a ship that departed from Germany?  Are US officials supposed to inspect all cargo ships in Germany?

Our national security has a lot to do with our weapons getting in the wrong hands. If this ship docks in a Russian port it comes under the control of the Russian Government. It's cargo can be removed and copied or whatever. If it can happen with Patriot Missiles, it can happen with anything, and no doubt does.
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JohnBrowdie
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« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2011, 11:36:24 am »

it depends on the model.  I certainly hope the latest/greatest aren't being exported.  older patriots have a fragmentation warhead.

smarty pants

BTW, the Patriot missile isn't an explosive per se, it uses kinetic energy to destroy threats.
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